Ich

[Courtney]

Paul you posted something about ich that went through it in great detail a couple months ago in the general discussion thread and I cant find it anywhere....

Thought it would be handy to have it here to.

[freedominco]

Here's what you need to know about ich QT everything before it goes into your tank and you won't have to worry about it. At least that's what has worked for my tank for almost 3 years and trust me my fish have been stressed out.

[Murfman]

I went back to Thanksgiving and couldn't find the tread you are referring to.

[Courtney]

Yeah I did the same thing but remember it was a big post like you did on the Cyano....

[Murfman]

I pulled up this search; http://www.thescmas.com/forums/searc...earchid=272280

It has all the threads in which I posted that have the key word quarantine in them.

[Courtney]

"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. "

Is what I get when I click on that link. Oh well I guess. I could have swore you posted something like you did on the cyano. I know you sent me a link that had a lot of great information too. Just figured it would be good to have here for everyone.

[notchback5.0]

quarantining a fish doesn't guarantee a fish wont get ich once placed into a new environment. All 3 tangs I have had so far Tomini Tang (sold back to seascapes) Yellow Tang (killed by Tomini) and my regal tang all get ich when I put them in my tank. All 3 fish were at seascapes for close to a month and showed no signs of ich and all were small when added. Within 48 hrs of addition they have it because they get harassed (in my opinion). I do not treat for ich, but I do make sure to feed them shrimp soaked in garlic guard by seachem and I over feed to help reduce stress. A healthy fish should be able to fight off ich on its own. When I use this method the Ich typically disappears within a couple days. I also have had good results with using a product called "NO Ich". I got it at seascpase. I used that a few years ago on my first 55 gal when I had bad tank conditions, and it worked great.

[freedominco]

Originally Posted by notchback5.0

quarantining a fish doesn't guarantee a fish wont get ich once placed into a new environment. All 3 tangs I have had so far Tomini Tang (sold back to seascapes) Yellow Tang (killed by Tomini) and my regal tang all get ich when I put them in my tank. All 3 fish were at seascapes for close to a month and showed no signs of ich and all were small when added. Within 48 hrs of addition they have it because they get harassed (in my opinion). I do not treat for ich, but I do make sure to feed them shrimp soaked in garlic guard by seachem and I over feed to help reduce stress. A healthy fish should be able to fight off ich on its own. When I use this method the Ich typically disappears within a couple days. I also have had good results with using a product called "NO Ich". I got it at seascpase. I used that a few years ago on my first 55 gal when I had bad tank conditions, and it worked great.

quarantining a fish guarantees that the fish dose not introduce ich into a ich free environment, but in your case it sounds like the tank has ich so most likely an fish you introduce will show signs of ich, some will fight it off and others won't.

[notchback5.0]

it is widely believed that ich is present in all aquariums, and i fully believe the theory. Ive set up brand new tanks with dry rock and quarantined fish and their tangs (first and only fish in the tank at that time time) got ich once they were moved into the display.

Ive seen tangs get ich in tanks that have never seen ich before months after addition, with no other additions. No fish in my tank other than tangs have ever had ich My cousin in Detroit is super anal and quarantines all fish for 2 mos before adding to his tank, he dips corals, all kinds of crazy stuff. We were talking about it last time I was home and he also thinks the same thing. He has added tangs to his tank that were quarantined for months and they get ich once introduced. He is pretty confident he has never introduced ich into his tank, and has had the same experiences as me. There are lots of people who have similar experiences on the forums all over the net. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Murfman]

Dwain, if he puts a fish that has been in QT, in to the DT, and it gets ich then ich is present in the tank, he had introduced it to the DT at one time or another. I have posted this up several times before. The key here is that if no new fish are added, then the ich that is present dies off. The strain that is in the tank only lasts 34 life cycles, or 10-11 months before that strain dies out.

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

Is "Ich" always present in our aquaria?

There is a widely held belief in the marine aquarium hobby that "Ich" is always present in our aquaria and this belief is often repeated on marine bulletin boards. There is much information in the scientific literature that contradicts this belief.

C. irritans is an obligate parasite (Burgess and Matthews, 1994; Dickerson and Dawe, 1995; Yoshinaga and Dickerson, 1994). Obligate means the parasite can not survive without infecting its host, in this case, fish. Theronts have been shown to die if a suitable host is not found within the required time. Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) found that few theronts (0.34&#37 were viable 12.5 hours after excystment and Burgess and Matthews (1994) found that no theronts were viable 18 hours after excystment. Colorni (1985) found that some excysted tomites (=theronts) were observed to be moving weekly after 48 hours. While the life span of the theronts appears variable, it is limited and all will die without finding a suitable host.

If an aquarium has no fish in it, and there are no additions of fish, or anything else that could be carrying trophonts, tomonts, tomites or theronts for a period of 6 weeks or longer, all parasites will have died. An aquarium such as this is an obvious exception to "Ich" always being present.

Many fish collected for marine aquariums will not be carrying "Ich". Incidence of C. irritans in wild fish varies widely and may be geographically related. Some authors have found few infected fish, if any, in the areas they have examined (Puerto Rico: Bunkley-Williams and Williams, 1994; southern California: Wilkie and Gordin, 1969) . Others have found that low levels of infection are not uncommon (e.g. southern Queensland; Diggles and Lester, 1996c). Keeping multiple fish in holding tanks and at aquarium stores increases the chances of a fish carrying "Ich" parasites, but it is still possible to acquire a fish that is not infected with "Ich".

If new fish are quarantined for at least 6 weeks, any parasites on the fish will have gone through a number of life cycles increasing the number of parasites present. In the majority of cases, the increase in parasite numbers will result in full blown infection and fish can be treated to remove the parasites. Hyposalinity has been demonstrated to break the life cycle of "Ich" (Cheung et al. 1979; Colorni, 1985) and fish correctly treated with hyposalinity will be free from "Ich". Any fish that do not show signs of infection after 6 weeks are very unlikely to be carrying any parasites.

If fish that are free from "Ich" (either because they were not originally infected or because they have been treated with hyposalinity) are added to an aquarium that is free from "Ich", the aquarium will stay free from "Ich" and be another exception to "Ich" always being present.

Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.

The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present.

Whilst "Ich" may be present in some aquaria, it is certainly not present in all aquaria. Through careful quarantining and treatment, it is very much possible to establish and maintain an "Ich" free aquarium.

[freedominco]

Originally Posted by notchback5.0

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

And I guess I will have to agree to agree with Murfman.

[spence]

Here's another good site to read about ich;

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

I was researching if ich could live on LR. It appears that during certain stages of its life it can, so it sounds like it is a good idea to QT LR for at least 8 days as well. If anyone knows anything else about LR and/or ich please post it.

Angela

[rekn]

ich is a specialized feeder. without its food source it dies. its a very simple parasite and wont scavange on algea or anything like most fish. no food, even for a human, equals death.

[barryfish]

so in yalls best knowledge what's the best thing to use to get rid of ich if I ever have a outbreak? I've been through the pain on a freshwater just didn't know if you can use the same treatment on a saltwater

[freedominco]

Originally Posted by barryfish

so in yalls best knowledge what's the best thing to use to get rid of ich if I ever have a outbreak? I've been through the pain on a freshwater just didn't know if you can use the same treatment on a saltwater

Don't introduce it in the first place....but if I had an out break I would remove all the fish to treat them leaving the tank fish-less and without the needed host.

[Murfman]

QT the fish before you put them in the display. This way you know you are not introducing anything to the tank you don't want in there.

[PuD]

Wouldn't running a UV sterilizer on the QT be a good way to help kill the free floating pests (not just ich)? Based off of some research that I've done on the subject, I would think that using the sterilizer in combination with copper treatment would be a good way to combat the problem. I certainly don't think it would hurt. I don't know of many people running a QT like that so there may be a downside to it that I don't know about. Just brainstorming...