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Thread: New - OLD Tank

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxthedog2000 View Post
    Are you just using the trash cans from Wal-Mart or what cuz that's what I use to

    Carter
    Im using the homedepot rubbermaid ones. Is yours leaching phosphates? If not can you send a picture so I know what to buy.

  2. #42
    Senior Member maxthedog2000's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Im using the homedepot rubbermaid ones. Is yours leaching phosphates? If not can you send a picture so I know what to buy.
    I don't know I haven't tested them and I run gfo/carbon reactor but I can send you a pic

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    Senior Member Kirblit's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Im using the homedepot rubbermaid ones. Is yours leaching phosphates? If not can you send a picture so I know what to buy.
    That's what I have used to mix salt in for years. I doubt that's where it's coming from. Are the the brute cans? If so they are nsf rated and shouldn't leach anything. Did you try mixing salt in another container and test and it was fine and then tested after mixing in trash can? I bet the majority of people in this hobby use those cans and I haven't heard of it before. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's unlikely, and not at those levels your swing in your tank. 5mg/l of phos is quite a bit.

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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirblit View Post
    That's what I have used to mix salt in for years. I doubt that's where it's coming from. Are the the brute cans? If so they are nsf rated and shouldn't leach anything. Did you try mixing salt in another container and test and it was fine and then tested after mixing in trash can? I bet the majority of people in this hobby use those cans and I haven't heard of it before. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's unlikely, and not at those levels your swing in your tank. 5mg/l of phos is quite a bit.

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    I put the RO water in a glass jar that I rinsed thoroughly and added water directly from the line. It tested at 0.0 crystal clear by my test kit (granted it does not pick up well below .25ppm). I then checked the water in the Trash can again and it tested high.

    They are no the brute cans (that I know of) so I will be looking for those, what place is the cheapest?

    Just tested the tank water again today and the Phosphates are back up between 2.5 - 4ppm. Something in the tank is causing it and I'm not sure what. For a while there were almost no spaghetti worms and now they are all over so I know something is feeding them. I wonder if my sea hare died somewhere and it is causing the spike. Another option is that the old rock absorbed a lot of Phosphate and now that the tank is lower than the rock they are leaching more.

    I'm thinking it might be time to hook up my 10 gallon put the fish and coral in it and do a huge water change. But I first need to create enough water to fill it as I don't want them in the 10 gallon for an extended duration. Since the trashcans are leaching that is also not an option.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Kirblit's Avatar

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    Home Depot or Lowe's, the 35 gal is like $30 and the 45 gal is like $40 or so. They are made by Rubbermaid though, they are dark Grey and are called brute. If you haven't done a waterchange and your phos went up then yes it is in the tank. It could be leaching from your old rock or sand, but I stick with overfeeding as the root cause. Food and fish waste from eating said food are the two major contributors to phosphorus. Do you run filter socks or any other form of mechanical filtration? If so how often do you change or clean them?

    Doing a huge water change is a possibility but it will only be a bandaid. You have to find the root cause to really fix it. To get your phos to a very low natural level you are going to have to do a 100% change and your livestock will not be happy with that. You want your phos to be somewhere below 0.1 with0.02-0.05 being optimal.

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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxthedog2000 View Post
    Are you just using the trash cans from Wal-Mart or what cuz that's what I use to

    Carter
    They are from HomeDepot but yes, just the cheap 14 dollar trashcans, black with handles.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Kirblit's Avatar

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    Yea I would get the good ones. They hold up to water weight much better as well. The cheap ones aren't really designed for liquid at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirblit View Post
    Home Depot or Lowe's, the 35 gal is like $30 and the 45 gal is like $40 or so. They are made by Rubbermaid though, they are dark Grey and are called brute. If you haven't done a waterchange and your phos went up then yes it is in the tank. It could be leaching from your old rock or sand, but I stick with overfeeding as the root cause. Food and fish waste from eating said food are the two major contributors to phosphorus. Do you run filter socks or any other form of mechanical filtration? If so how often do you change or clean them?

    Doing a huge water change is a possibility but it will only be a bandaid. You have to find the root cause to really fix it. To get your phos to a very low natural level you are going to have to do a 100% change and your livestock will not be happy with that. You want your phos to be somewhere below 0.1 with0.02-0.05 being optimal.

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    Yeah, I figured that. I run a pad from Michaels sowing section cheap and dense. When I was running a sock I cleaned it once a week. It was so bad every time that I spent an hour on it. I would put it in and within a week it was bad again. I have been feeding every three days since the high level detection. I cut down the food by 1/2 so I am thinking its the old rock leaching. If that's the case then no water change will help it as it will rise and rise again (Batman reference). I just mickey rigged a algae scrubber, just a piece of knitting plastic layed at an angle off the skimmer. Gets a steady flow, plenty of O2 and light, hope it will work until I can get a better setup.

    Good news is after all this I should have a great foundation of knowledge to build on.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Kirblit's Avatar

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    Yea you learn the most from the mistakes, and you never forget them either!

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    http://www.thescmas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirblit View Post
    Yea you learn the most from the mistakes, and you never forget them either!

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    Very true, a lesson learned in some pain you will always remember. My saltwater bin will be full today. I will get a salt mix going and do another water change, this time with a deep vacuum of the sand bed.

    I did put in the reef saver rock and found an article saying that it has a tendency to leak phosphates. Should I remove the rock and try and cook it to see if the phosphates come down?

    The skimmer appears to be an ASM G1 original. Im wondering if the original pump failed and this one was added.

  11. #51
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    http://cosprings.craigslist.org/grd/5615193992.html

    One of mine held soy sauce, the other root beer syrup.


    Just keep doing 10% every day for 10 days and then test again. If it is down, then you are doing the right thing. Like Kirby said, 100% or even 50% is stressful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murfman View Post
    http://cosprings.craigslist.org/grd/5615193992.html

    One of mine held soy sauce, the other root beer syrup.


    Just keep doing 10% every day for 10 days and then test again. If it is down, then you are doing the right thing. Like Kirby said, 100% or even 50% is stressful.
    Thanks for the link. May stop by to get one just to have something for salt mixing as the salt can seems to have the higher Phosphate levels. I did a 30% yesterday and will be doing 10% until I see the levels drop. Thus is why I was asking about other uses for saltwater as this much would kill the bacteria in the septic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Thanks for the link. May stop by to get one just to have something for salt mixing as the salt can seems to have the higher Phosphate levels. I did a 30% yesterday and will be doing 10% until I see the levels drop. Thus is why I was asking about other uses for saltwater as this much would kill the bacteria in the septic.
    Came home did a 10% water change. I also checked if the bright pink lifts off the rock by a strong current. It is hard to the rock even scraping did not yield anything coming off. Its not spreading like I would expect Coralline to. It seems to be doubling in size every day and is only located in spots with good light and a slightly lower current.

    I swear its this color, but with phosphates so high why would this grow?
    http://ocean.si.edu/blog/coralline-a...ts-coral-reefs

  14. #54
    Registered User Just_Tim's Avatar

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    I would get the brute can just for the durability but also because that's what pretty much 75% of the national reefers are using. It's what I use to make RO then it gets moved to a poly tank for long-term saltwater storage.

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    Last edited by Just_Tim; 07-15-2016 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Also because I'm tarded

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Tim View Post
    I would get the brute can just for the durability but also because that's what pretty much 75% of the national reefers are using. It's what I use to make RO then it gets moved to a poly tank for long-term saltwater storage.

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    Confirmed its from the Trash Cans. Did a phosphate test on the bottom water rather than top and it matches my tank level of close to 5ppm. I will be running out today to pick up a Brute trash can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Confirmed its from the Trash Cans. Did a phosphate test on the bottom water rather than top and it matches my tank level of close to 5ppm. I will be running out today to pick up a Brute trash can.
    Its been about 10 days and the phosphates are down to around 1.5 and the Brute trashcan appears to be working. I have not done a water change in about 3 days to allow everything to de-stress a little. The next water change will be Wednesday at 20%. From the Meeting the only coral that did not make it was the Monti's as my T5 bulb went out so I bought a new one. I'm thinking this bleached the corals along with the combination of high phosphates. All the others appear to be doing well. I made a custom $3 reactor for GFO - now just need the GFO - to bring everything down the rest of the way. Anyone have a recommendation for GFO - It is a high flow reactor as the pump I have is around 260gph. It will hold around 2cups of media and be slightly compressed.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Kirblit's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Its been about 10 days and the phosphates are down to around 1.5 and the Brute trashcan appears to be working. I have not done a water change in about 3 days to allow everything to de-stress a little. The next water change will be Wednesday at 20%. From the Meeting the only coral that did not make it was the Monti's as my T5 bulb went out so I bought a new one. I'm thinking this bleached the corals along with the combination of high phosphates. All the others appear to be doing well. I made a custom $3 reactor for GFO - now just need the GFO - to bring everything down the rest of the way. Anyone have a recommendation for GFO - It is a high flow reactor as the pump I have is around 260gph. It will hold around 2cups of media and be slightly compressed.
    You don't want too high of flow through the reactor for two reasons; If the media tumbles too much it could crush up which could turn your tank orange. The second and most important thing is contact time. GAC and GFO are all about contact time for good removal rates. I would highly recommend putting a ball valve on the line in to the reactor after the pump so you can control the flow rate through it. It's best to have very small "boil" of the GFO media in the top 1/8th inch or so to prevent channeling.

    Also keep an eye on your alkalinity while doing this, like I mentioned before it creates an acid and will decrease your alkalinity. 2 cups of media should be good, just check your phos after 24hrs, and 48 hrs to make sure it doesn't go to zero. Zero phosphorus isn't good for your tank either. Shoot for. 02-.05 for optimum water quality. It should take about 48 hrs or so to remove most of your phosphates though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirblit View Post
    You don't want too high of flow through the reactor for two reasons; If the media tumbles too much it could crush up which could turn your tank orange. The second and most important thing is contact time. GAC and GFO are all about contact time for good removal rates. I would highly recommend putting a ball valve on the line in to the reactor after the pump so you can control the flow rate through it. It's best to have very small "boil" of the GFO media in the top 1/8th inch or so to prevent channeling.

    Also keep an eye on your alkalinity while doing this, like I mentioned before it creates an acid and will decrease your alkalinity. 2 cups of media should be good, just check your phos after 24hrs, and 48 hrs to make sure it doesn't go to zero. Zero phosphorus isn't good for your tank either. Shoot for. 02-.05 for optimum water quality. It should take about 48 hrs or so to remove most of your phosphates though.

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    Thanks for the info - Was thinking about adding a ball valve but I also did build it to accept the overflow from the tank, would just need a hole to allow lower pressure or add a T connection. I built it with 3/4 inch tube connections to fit the tank bulkheads better. So the Brown/Orange GFO is better than the Phosban stuff? Is there anything I should watch for with coral or fish to know if it is doing harm? Also is there anyplace in the Springs that sells the GFO I need?

    I already have a PH with Alk buffer and another buffer that I cannot remember right now.
    The one good thing is I'm religious about checking parameters right now.
    With waking up at 3am I have a few minutes I can test phosphates and will likely run it only at night and remove before the lights come on.

  19. #59
    Senior Member maxthedog2000's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMEYER0503 View Post
    Its been about 10 days and the phosphates are down to around 1.5 and the Brute trashcan appears to be working. I have not done a water change in about 3 days to allow everything to de-stress a little. The next water change will be Wednesday at 20%. From the Meeting the only coral that did not make it was the Monti's as my T5 bulb went out so I bought a new one. I'm thinking this bleached the corals along with the combination of high phosphates. All the others appear to be doing well. I made a custom $3 reactor for GFO - now just need the GFO - to bring everything down the rest of the way. Anyone have a recommendation for GFO - It is a high flow reactor as the pump I have is around 260gph. It will hold around 2cups of media and be slightly compressed.
    I have mine run through a gravity feed that keeps it a good flow that is slow enough to get good contact time and fast enough to prevent channeling in the gfo and every week or two I give it a little shake to mix the gfo just in case there is channeling.

    Carter

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    Quote Originally Posted by maxthedog2000 View Post
    I have mine run through a gravity feed that keeps it a good flow that is slow enough to get good contact time and fast enough to prevent channeling in the gfo and every week or two I give it a little shake to mix the gfo just in case there is channeling.

    Carter
    Does everything run through the GFO or is there a T to let off some pressure?

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