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Thread: Ich - Answers beyond stickies

  1. #1
    Member batman's Avatar

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    Ich - Answers beyond stickies

    I've read through the stickies a few times, browsed the web, and started my hospital tank after white spots tarted popping up on my fish. I've probably overlooked the answers to my questions, so your patience in answering is appreciated. I picked up a standard 20g tank for housing. Added a heater, light, pvc shelter, and a power head. Got a RODI for Christmas. I'll be mixing water tomorrow and starting the transition into the QT. My questions are :

    1) opinions on limit to how many fish i can house in the 20g for 6 - 8 weeks?

    My livestock is as follows :

    1) Small Sailfin Tang
    2) Coral Beauty
    3) Kleins Butterfly
    4) 2 Perc Clowns

    2a) 100% freshly mixed saltwater?

    It seems I don't want to transfer water from a contaminated system into a hospital tank

    2b) how about biological material for filtration?

    Again, why would I move parasites to a safe zone?

    3) can I populate the tank with coral and inverts during fallow period?

    4) Am I wrong to only perform a water change when the numbers appear out of whack, and also the usual 10-15% a week on top of fluctuations in water parameters?

    Thank you!
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  2. #2
    Registered User Levi's Avatar

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    I know this isn't a direct answer but I feel in this situation it is your best option. Get a UV sterilizer for your system and leave them in the display tank.

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    Are you planning on going hypo in the QT or treating with chemicals? I've done hypo with success.

    One thing missing from your equip list is a hob filter, such as an Aquaclear 70 or the like. I don't know if a powerhead alone will give you enough oxygen.

    The light is not necessary.

    100% fresh saltwater yes, although you'll want to acclimate on the initial transfer.

    It's not a safe zone until the ich is gone, and when you first put the fish in qt it aint gone. I keep small bags of ceramic beads in the sump and use one of those in the QT, put in the the HOB filter. With that many fish you'll prob need to do more frequent WC in a 20 than weekly. In a 20 I do 1-2 gallon daily with 2-3 small fish. I don't test the water, other than salinity for hypo, and I've never lost a fish to water params in qt.

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    Registered User Levi's Avatar

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    Make sure to do water changes like Rome suggested. Water can go south fast in a qt so water changes keeps it fresh and funk free

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    Check your ammonia/nitrites 2x a day, minimum. That will give you an indication of your water going bad.

    I think the best way to do this is hypo water transfer method, with UV. 3 tier approach. 2 tanks, hypo at the same SG, Temp, pH; UV running on both tanks. Transfer fish from 1st Hypo on day 2 to new tank, drain tank 1, clean, refill with water to same SG, Temp, pH as tank 2. Transfer to tank 2 on day 3 and repeat. Long arduous process.
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    Member batman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romebaby View Post
    Are you planning on going hypo in the QT or treating with chemicals? I've done hypo with success.

    One thing missing from your equip list is a hob filter, such as an Aquaclear 70 or the like. I don't know if a powerhead alone will give you enough oxygen.

    The light is not necessary.

    100% fresh saltwater yes, although you'll want to acclimate on the initial transfer.

    It's not a safe zone until the ich is gone, and when you first put the fish in qt it aint gone. I keep small bags of ceramic beads in the sump and use one of those in the QT, put in the the HOB filter. With that many fish you'll prob need to do more frequent WC in a 20 than weekly. In a 20 I do 1-2 gallon daily with 2-3 small fish. I don't test the water, other than salinity for hypo, and I've never lost a fish to water params in qt.
    My intent was to suspend the QT in hypo.

    I'll definitely pick up a filter before the transfer into QT.
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    Member batman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murfman View Post
    Check your ammonia/nitrites 2x a day, minimum. That will give you an indication of your water going bad.

    I think the best way to do this is hypo water transfer method, with UV. 3 tier approach. 2 tanks, hypo at the same SG, Temp, pH; UV running on both tanks. Transfer fish from 1st Hypo on day 2 to new tank, drain tank 1, clean, refill with water to same SG, Temp, pH as tank 2. Transfer to tank 2 on day 3 and repeat. Long arduous process.
    It looks as if the fundamental rules of hyposalinity are easy to follow. Does the 2 tank method add a ton of more stress to the fish?
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman View Post
    It looks as if the fundamental rules of hyposalinity are easy to follow. Does the 2 tank method add a ton of more stress to the fish?
    Not as long as everything is the same. You would have the stress of catching and moving them every day though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murfman View Post
    Not as long as everything is the same. You would have the stress of catching and moving them every day though.
    No better time than now with the $1/g sale at petco. Thanks for the good info.
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    Registered User Levi's Avatar

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    I have seen time and time again people try hypo and we have discussed it many times in other threads that the life cycle of ich varies wildly so you would need to keep this up for months and months to assure you are actually ridding yourself of ich. In place of all of the stress and potential loss of life through this process, I still feel it is better to manage the ich rather than try and eradicate it completely. Having UV allows for your system to keep the ich in check so that the fish are able to safely live with it. When the ich hatches instead of what is called an "ich bloom" happening, the UV caused the free swimming ich to be sterile so that reproduction cannot happen. This means the eggs do not hatch. Obviously you are not able to get 100% of the ich through your UV so some will still hatch, but the cycle continues with sterilization so that it is always keeping them in check so their population cannot grow to the point that it makes your fish look like a high school teenage boy going through puberty with a severe case of pimples. I successfully ran hypo for 3 months, didnt fix anything and when the fish went back into the main tank that was completely fallow with no additions of anything, the fish got ich again. Keep in mind that everytime you add any coral or rock or whatever to your fallow tank, you start your timer over because it could have ich eggs on it. With my system having 100% of my water run through 144w of UV, I am not worried about Ich at all. I only worry about other things like velvet or stomach parasites etc. This is something that even hypo wont fix so either way you would still have to deal with it. I have read that Hypo is very stressful to a fish's internal organs but need to find out more about this as it doesnt make sense to me. A fish processes out the salt and the internal organs are made up of freshwater so I am not sure why hypo is stressful but I have read multiple times that it is harmful to the fishes liver.

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    What I have heard about hypo is going down in SG is not as stressful to fish so you can drop the SG faster than going back up. Going back up the liver has to adjust so you must go slowly.
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    Member batman's Avatar

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    I'm trying to be as proactive as possible.

    Least risk:

    Go hypo
    Run UV
    Alternate tank method

    Some risk:

    Single tank hypo

    OR

    Chemicals

    More risk:

    UV in tank only

    Most risk:

    Do nothing.



    I'm looking for a quick UV solution at this point... Are the petco/petsmart UV filters garbage?
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    If you have Amazon Prime you can order one and it will be here by Wed, if not sooner.
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    Resistance is futile. AGGJSW's Avatar

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    I've done them all and really believe you never get rid of ich. Never! I run a UV 100% of the time and really like it.
    -Greg
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    Senior Member JimG's Avatar

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    Yeah, the uv units that are sold at Petco are not worth your money. You get what you pay for big time.

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    I ran my fish holding systems at 1.006 and the fish continually flared with ich for months after months of being in there. Hypo means crap to me now. I've seen the tanks of ppl on herr continually break out with ich after all types of qt but have now been successful with the simple addition of uv filters. I'm thoroughly convinced of them that with my upcoming expansion and addition of fish holding tanks again, I will not have a single tank salt or fresh without a uv
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    Registered User Levi's Avatar

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    We should build you a large custom UV!

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    Member batman's Avatar

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    Just a quick update. . .



    I've been running UV for 2 days now. The sailfin and clowns dropped all their spots overnight. The kleins and coral beauty acquired new spots overnight. I've never seen such crystal clear water, even while running carbon doing frequent water changes. Water parameters are solid. I guess I get to play the waiting game now.

    I decided against filling the quarantine tank since work has gotten crazy the last week coming back from the holidays. Constantly monitoring water parameters in a 20g was out of the question.

    I truly appreciate the advice and will give an update on the thread in a week or two.
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  23. #19
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    Woo hoo go uv
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    When all else fails, kick it, smack it then throw it out the wndow and start over

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    Member batman's Avatar

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    Just a quick update. .

    I lost all but the sailfin; which is doing exceptionally well. I haven't seen a spot on it in nearly 3 months.

    Is it easy to explain why i haven't seen a sign of ich since early January? Any thoughts on time period before introducing a new pair of clowns?
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