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View Full Version : Ludacrisly High Phos!



Kirblit
05-23-2016, 12:18 PM
I've been doing some digging on the Redfield ratio and possibly nitrate dosing and some other stuff because I'm really intrigued by it. My corals have been looking a little "off" lately and not much growth. Normal parameters Yada, Yada, Yada are OK. Well I figure what the heck let's test my NO3 and PO4 and see if I have a true "0" for them because that's a bad thing. I have always had a very low nutrient tank in the past so I figured that was the issue. Well long story short, that is not the case.....

You ready...?
I don't know if you are.......

OK, it was 1.33!!!!!!!
Yes there will be more to come on this when I get home.

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Kirblit
05-23-2016, 12:23 PM
Oh, and for those wondering what a tank with that much phos looks like, well these were taken a week ago and it looks the same so you can imagine my surprise

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/12c91bca979170d0b2232d5f12727cc1.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/2e0e5702cb97e307dc47043d14d9362c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160523/d44ea38c9c3a8002694440f0ad5ff020.jpg

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static reef
05-23-2016, 05:33 PM
1.33 still isnt that bad though. Like your temperature comment, it's all about stable conditions. A year and a half ago, grasshopper's alk was at 3 and his corals looked bad ***.
Adding a reactor (what kind), water changes, or ?? to lower?

static reef
05-23-2016, 05:35 PM
Sub topic- are you hand feeding your dendros and solars? My acans grow like weeds but my 1 head of dendro hasnt grown in over a year. It has great PE, but I dont had feed any of my corals and it is in 0 light.

Kirblit
05-23-2016, 06:45 PM
1.33 still isnt that bad though. Like your temperature comment, it's all about stable conditions. A year and a half ago, grasshopper's alk was at 3 and his corals looked bad ***.
Adding a reactor (what kind), water changes, or ?? to lower?
No its bad! At that rate it pretty much stops calcification completely. I have some giant water changes to do. I tracked down the problem, more on that later.

To your other question no I don't hand feed much. I have them strategically placed in the flow to catch food. I put some food in they open up and then I add some more. They catch quite a bit.

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Kirblit
05-23-2016, 07:17 PM
Just in case anyone thinks it's a bad test it's not, I tested it a couple times . it's not a home use kit, it's on a HACH colorimeter at work. Here's the troubling results
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/892855925fd17761bb91f84779c89e65.jpg

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Nibrown9
05-23-2016, 08:55 PM
It's incredible you didn't have an explosion of algea. I'm curious to see how this turns out, how are your coral colors now vs when you started dosing?

Kirblit
05-23-2016, 09:55 PM
It's incredible you didn't have an explosion of algea. I'm curious to see how this turns out, how are your coral colors now vs when you started dosing?
No dosing anything, never even got that far. I just tested my tank to see where it was at and, well it was not in a good place. I think I avoided the algae because I have no nitrates. You have to have, nitrates, po4, and carbon for photosynthesis and I am nitrate limiting and I think that saved me. Everyone should look into the Redfield ratio. Really gets the mind going and explains a lot of algae/cyano outbreaks. I'm gearing up for some big water changes currently. Corals look so so right now, we will see how this turns out.

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Kirblit
05-23-2016, 09:59 PM
So I think I found the culprit to be exhausted di resin. Di goes bad really, really fast on well water because of the high co2 in it. Well I just left it forever like that because the water out of the ro was fine. Well I believe it started to leach back out because my water barrel/topoff reads 0.09. Using this for top off for God knows how long is more than likely the cause and led to a buildup along with regular feeding. Believe it or not I have been running gfo the whole time as well.

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Kirblit
05-24-2016, 10:57 AM
Well with a hefty dose of gfo last night the phos is down to 0.97 which is much better than I thought it would be. Just need to do some big water changes and I should be back in business.


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Levi
05-24-2016, 09:39 PM
Just in case anyone thinks it's a bad test it's not, I tested it a couple times . it's not a home use kit, it's on a HACH colorimeter at work. Here's the troubling results
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160524/892855925fd17761bb91f84779c89e65.jpg

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More importantly, when I get up and running can I mail water to you for lab grade testing?

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Kirblit
05-25-2016, 11:06 AM
More importantly, when I get up and running can I mail water to you for lab grade testing?

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Sorry, I wish I could. I actually don't use what I have access to most of the time. I could run metals and all sorts of stuff if I wanted to. I'll do some here or there for verification of stuff but for the most part I just use test kits like everyone else.

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Levi
05-25-2016, 11:24 AM
Sorry, I wish I could. I actually don't use what I have access to most of the time. I could run metals and all sorts of stuff if I wanted to. I'll do some here or there for verification of stuff but for the most part I just use test kits like everyone else.

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Where is the fun in that?

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Kirblit
05-25-2016, 12:43 PM
Where is the fun in that?

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You know to be honest I would rather use normal kits for the most part anyway. You end up "chasing" less numbers that way because you tend to just go with what works for your tank and not match nsw numbers all the time. People try to match everything perfect all the time and don't stop to actually look at what is going on in their tank.

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Levi
05-25-2016, 12:58 PM
I don't disagree, but it would be fun to test samples against our regular kits to see how accurate they really are.

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Kirblit
05-25-2016, 01:01 PM
I don't disagree, but it would be fun to test samples against our regular kits to see how accurate they really are.

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I have done that for alk, Cal and mag. They are all pretty accurate. I would say within the 5% they claim for the most part.

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Kirblit
05-26-2016, 06:04 PM
Well today it's down to 0.47 so I'll do a 50% change tomorrow and replace the gfo again and I should be back in business.

I feel pretty dumb that this even happened. I guess I just figured it wasn't a problem because I don't have a lick of algae in the tank. I'm lucky I don't have any nitrates or I would probably have had a pretty bad outbreak. My corals are definitely still pretty ticked off but I shouldn't lose anything thank God.

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Kirblit
05-27-2016, 08:07 PM
Well the 70 gallon waterchange is done, now I wait.....

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160528/c1392205f380bd3f40c51ab274affac7.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160528/74899eeff85ec24b510adea0c5aea9a5.jpg

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Kirblit
06-01-2016, 08:51 PM
OK so I think I'm officially going crazy?? I just got in a nitrate test kit for the Redfield testing if I do that. Well give it a shot and nitrates waaaay out of range. The test maxes out at 4ppm. So I dilute, dilute, dilute. Long story short I maxed it out over the 64ppm range! I then grab a super expired api kit just to see. Well it confirms it's really high. Best I can tell prob 80-100? You be the judge.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/c4e32d199217634b007a2c689e586725.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/0cfb0efc7da78f88469b76f56190da21.jpg

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Balz3352
06-02-2016, 02:27 AM
What died in your tank?!? Seriously crazy stuff though

static reef
06-02-2016, 04:21 AM
Wow. Maybe I will test mine when I get back. I stopped testing for phosphates and nitrates over a year ago.

Kirblit
06-02-2016, 09:14 AM
What died in your tank?!? Seriously crazy stuff though
Strangely enough nothing. I actually currently have a pretty low bioload in general. I have a clown fish, a 4-5" kole tang, and a 8-9" naso tang. I do feed heavily and always have. My tank was neglected for about 2 years but have been taking good care of it again since January. I have never had an algae issue at all with my tank either. I have no idea how long this has been going on to be honest.

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Kirblit
06-02-2016, 09:20 AM
Wow. Maybe I will test mine when I get back. I stopped testing for phosphates and nitrates over a year ago.
I know it's crazy. I never ever tested for phos or nitrates in the past because I never had a reason to do so either. I have never had any algae problems or anything with my tank. I only have about a dozen or so snails and an urchin for grazers. I have even had several snails presumably starve to death from lack of food even when the tank was neglected. I only have to scrape the glass every few weeks for algae. Here I was thinking I have been running a low nutrient system when in fact it has been crazy high!

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Kirblit
06-02-2016, 09:26 AM
Here are some coral shots from right after the water change last week and then from a few days ago as well. The nitrates could have been over 200 presumably because I did a 50% change last week. The algae on the glass hasn't been scraped in over 3 weeks and you can still see through quite well. I really have some digging to do on possible interferences with nitrate tests and I'm going to get yet another kit just to see what it says.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/695caf873b903c3aa78765e70a3af548.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/41ba150a00b1b48a7580d549718a82e2.jpg
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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/f5c23c5fc69256eeb8d450d1a51606d1.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/65922f3da04ad851e9366b567e3cbd65.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/4ea3c53f713d79b4f71e4699ab4a51da.jpg


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Kirblit
06-02-2016, 06:31 PM
It's confirmed, the nitrates are indeed that high. Several big water changes to come. This is all just so weird. No signs of these kinds of nutrients. I mean come on phos over 1 and NO3 over 200 and no algae?

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Nibrown9
06-02-2016, 06:41 PM
There is a thread on reef central in the sps section...Thanos I think is the guy's name and his was higher and a beautiful tank..if it isn't broke and everything looks great why the concern?

Kirblit
06-02-2016, 06:59 PM
There is a thread on reef central in the sps section...Thanos I think is the guy's name and his was higher and a beautiful tank..if it isn't broke and everything looks great why the concern?
No real huge concern, but I know things should look way better and grow much faster. Corals definitely could be doing better. Getting the phos down has helped a ton already. I know at phos levels that high it completely inhibits calcification, hence the slow growth.

I'm more surprised than anything. With a nutrient load like that I should have some serious algae issues atleast. I actually feel kind of bad about it. There are people out there with huge algae issues with way less nutrients. Makes me wonder what the real triggers are for algae outbreaks.

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Balz3352
06-03-2016, 01:58 AM
Old tank syndrome?

Kirblit
06-04-2016, 02:07 PM
Old tank syndrome?
I don't think so, I think all the nutrients are just due to a couple years of neglect.

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Sharkboy99999
06-06-2016, 03:12 PM
Why change you phosphates and nitrates all your sps look awesome!

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Kirblit
06-06-2016, 05:09 PM
Why change you phosphates and nitrates all your sps look awesome!

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Thanks. Nitrates I'm not too worried about, but I'd like to see them lower than they are for sure maybe 10 or so. The phos is the real problem because phosphorus inhibits calcification so the corals won't grow. More than anything I'd like to know why I don't have any algae?

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jjmoneyman
06-06-2016, 06:29 PM
Just consider yourself lucky.




Xyz from my silly phone.

Kirblit
06-06-2016, 06:39 PM
Just consider yourself lucky.




Xyz from my silly phone.
I know, but it really makes me wonder what that algae trigger is! It could really help a lot of people. Nutrients obviously fuel it's growth once it gets established, but what makes it go nuts.

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Kirblit
06-06-2016, 06:40 PM
I did another 70 gal waterchange yesterday. I just got done testing and NO3 is down to 40ish so I'm getting there. I would like to drop it down to around 10 or so over the next few weeks. I don't want to shock everything too much.

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Coral Xpressions
06-06-2016, 09:52 PM
Throw up an algea scrubber if ya ain't got one. Mine keeps everything super low

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Kirblit
06-07-2016, 10:28 AM
Throw up an algea scrubber if ya ain't got one. Mine keeps everything super low

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Yea I'm in the process of setting up a fuge again. I'm just waiting on some chaeto and a light. I don't want to get nitrates to 0 I would like to keep them around 5-10 and phos at 0.02-0.05.

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