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static reef
01-22-2016, 02:24 PM
Is anyone doing this in the club at all? Thoughts? Opinions? Pros and cons?

NightStar
01-22-2016, 02:58 PM
In my opinion, admittedly without running the numbers, to obtain the water turnover to accomplish what you want it will get expensive fast. There are only two purposes to this that I see. First is nutrient export. Second is major and trace element replenishment. For the first, nutrient export, I think you're better off adding to or adjusting your system to where it can handle it's bioload on its own. As you pointed out a 300gal algae tank did wonders. I would suggest adding a refugium/algae haven. The second is element replenishment. For a heavily stocked tank, water changes are an inefficient way to do this. A calcium reactor would be a better solution. In my opinion anyway

AGGJSW
01-23-2016, 06:52 AM
I bought Apex's DOS system to do this but have never installed it. I never really had an overwhelming urge in hook it up - I'm old school I guess. I know Craigar was thinking about or may have by now installed one. I'll be following this thread for sure.

Levi
01-23-2016, 06:38 PM
This was year's ago when I was in high school but I volunteered for a local fish store that had a 1000g saltwater display in his front window. The way he managed algae was a 180g sump that he lit up like a Christmas tree with nothing but algae in it. He said his reason was it's harder to control the parameters in the water than it is to let nature do it for you. So he created an algae haven and scooped out the hair algae as it grew. He used an external skimmer and UV plumbed in after the algae tank. He never really had any algae issues in the main tank.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

Hydroid
01-23-2016, 09:55 PM
Is anyone doing this in the club at all? Thoughts? Opinions? Pros and cons?

I have often thought of this and wondered about evaporation and maintaining salt levels.
I'm assuming the standard ATO system would have to go away and a controller implementing a salinity probe to decide if salt or ro is to be added.

.... Also day dreamed of living on a tropical island and my tank plumbed straight to the ocean. Haha

Joe
01-24-2016, 11:47 AM
I run a pretty wet skimmate so it's not constant but effectively pretty regular small amounts I'm changing. I have the ATO for evaporation dialed in pretty decent, so I add fresh salt water every couple of days when the water level drops since t's because of the skimmer pulling out a little. It's sort of by design that I do that. I want to build an ATS and get more macro algae in my sump to help out too. I try to stay with many methods of whatever to avoid reliance on one thing. I have

NightStar
01-24-2016, 12:02 PM
For the algae/nutrient export, here are the premade option I was telling you about:

Algae Scrubbers

http://www.302aquatics.net/

Chaeto reactor:
https://reefbuilders.com/2015/11/12/pax-bellum-arid-filter-review-intense-grow-chaetomorpha/

static reef
01-25-2016, 12:56 AM
Thanks for the replies. So that everyone knows, I am not thinking about doing this for nuisance algae. I am thinking about this for trace element replacement and constant water quality.

Rachel- Thanks. I have spent the last 3 hours reading about this chaeto reactor and how to build one without the price tag.

Joe
01-25-2016, 02:09 AM
I'm down for building one of those cheato reactors too. We can run a few projects together.

Levi
01-25-2016, 08:21 AM
I'm down for building one of those cheato reactors too. We can run a few projects together.

Wouldnt be too hard really, they used a uniseal to hold the quartz sleeve in place on the lid, then rubber o-rings on each side of each "plate" to hold the plate in place. The hardest part would be making the copper or aluminum heatsink that all of the LED's are wrapped around. It is filled with water so that as it heats up it evaporates, but in a vacuum so that the evaopration temperature is much much lower than normal. Water boils at a much lower point in a vacuum than outside of a vacuum.

For the outside shell you could easily use large diameter PVC, also there are flange fittings available that would give you a place to bolt it together so that would be easy to source. I bet for this entire project you could build it for under 100..... you got my wheels turning now.

ok figured out how to do the vacuum, its like I saw on an episode of Mythbusters. We cap the end of a pipe and fill it partially with water and heat it up to a boil. When it starts to steam we cap off the other end. As the water cools it creates a vacuum.

http://www.alltranstek.com/mythbusters.html

because of the small diameter of the pipe, hopefully it will not implode like the tanker did.

found the quick disconnect fittings to make taking it apart very easy.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=27854&catid=926

Joe
01-25-2016, 02:07 PM
Yep Beats the pricing of http://uniquecorals.com/pax-bellum-arid-c30-macroalgae-based-bio-absorption-filtration-system.html
Pax Bellum ARID C30 Macroalgae Based Bio-Absorption Filtration System (For Systems 300-600 US Gallons)
Sign up for price alert
Availability: In stock

Only 1 left

$1,495.00

Levi
01-25-2016, 02:39 PM
6" pvc pipe 10 ft so could make 3 of these ~$41
http://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-x-10-ft-PVC-Sch-40-DWV-Plain-End-Pipe-30577/203308683

6" pvc coupler ~$15 (cut in half, one for top and one for bottom to make the pipe "thick enough" to allow acrylic to be glued to"
http://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-PVC-DWV-Hub-x-Hub-Coupling-C4801HD6/100342508

so far I am at $28 and I have the body pretty much done. It needs 1/4" acrylic and you can get a full sheet of clear for ~$120 which could easily make probably 6 of these units from 1 sheet. so that puts me at cost without the quartz sleeve and quick disconnect fittings/uniseal and rubber orings at around $50. So it might be closer to $150 but still I feel confident in that ballpark range.

36" quartz sleeve $52
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-Package-UV-Bulb-and-Quartz-Sleeve-for-use-with-20040-80W-/181661911019?hash=item2a4be4c7eb:g:3iQAAOSw2s1U12G J

1/2" copper pipe 10ft enough to make 3 units ~$14
http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-10-ft-Copper-Type-L-Pipe-LH04010/100354232

1/2" copper pipe cap $.63 x2
http://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-Copper-Tube-Cap-C617HD12/204620212

copper/aluminum finned heatsink for top of tube ~$10
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-PC-Computer-CPU-Copper-Aluminum-Heatsink-Heat-Sink-/361445330007?hash=item5427d20c57:g:YpoAAOSwxN5WXi5 B

for the lights here is a pic of the leds, you can see two individual strands one is white and one is red, the white is 5630 leds and the red is 5050 leds
https://reefbuilders.com/files/2015/11/pax-bellum-led-pipe-tube-8.jpg

5m of cool white 5630 LEDS with power plug $17
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-300LED-SMD-3528-5050-5630-RGB-White-Flexible-Strip-Light-Remote-Power-Supply-/181929534674?var=&hash=item2a5bd864d2:m:ms2--KNAphBcmJyE6P1weBQ

5m of red 5630 leds with power plug $17
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-300LED-SMD-3528-5050-5630-RGB-White-Flexible-Strip-Light-Remote-Power-Supply-/181929534674?var=&hash=item2a5bd864d2:m:ms2--KNAphBcmJyE6P1weBQ

black nylon thumb screws for keeping the lid in place ~$9
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Nylon-Thumb-Screws-with-Shoulder-Knurled-Head-1-4-20-Thread-Black-1-1-2-/261416996559?hash=item3cddaacecf:g:6I8AAOxydB1SkQ3 g

silicone oring 7.25" OD (9 pack) $24
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-9-GENERIC-SILICONE-RUBBER-O-RING-6-7-1-4-IDX7-3-4-OD-3-6-x-6-1-2-/380941778335?hash=item58b1e63d9f:g:pLwAAOSwirZTtEO v

rubber orings 1"OD (12 pack) ~$9 (hold the plates onto the quartz sleeve)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-12-pk-210-SAE-1-OD-x-3-4-ID-Nitrile-Rubber-O-Ring-Fuel-Oil-Seal-Gaskets-/321495802438?hash=item4adaa4a246:g:hI8AAOSwxCxT8pk u

1" uniseals ~$2 x2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNISEAL-Bulkhead-Alternative-hydroponic-aquaponic-aquarium-aquaculture-uniseals-/141751412957?var=&hash=item21010ae8dd:m:mzmjkuWk-inHYckmoPOh-bw

quick disconnect bulkhead ~$17 x2
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=27854&catid=926

quick disconnect male right angle ~$14
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=27581&catid=926

quick disconnect male straight ~$7
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=27575&catid=926

random PVC parts to connect to water input at bottom of reactor ~$15

total parts list = $247

You still need pvc glue and weldon 16 but that is something I already have. This would make a 3ft tall unit.

also found some white PVC sheet to use in place of the couplers to widen out the top and bottom of the unit 12"x24" sheet of 1/2" white pvc is ~$25 on amazon with free shipping
http://www.amazon.com/Polyvinyl-Chloride-Opaque-Standard-Tolerance/dp/B00CPRFATC

This would also allow you to use a pvc welder to put welding beads around the neck and base for added structural support.

white pvc welding rod ~$10
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=45052&gclid=Cj0KEQiArJe1BRDe_uz1uu-QjvYBEiQACUj6ouvhuAWgn_z-4rpeSK1Xn78l2M6WDN22xsZwfYK6uJAaAmmo8P8HAQ

Levi
01-25-2016, 03:39 PM
just updated a full parts list to make one of these, hoping that someone wants to take this project on so that I do not have to lol

Joe
01-25-2016, 03:52 PM
Okay, I'm in for sure. Let's get a few of us to spread this out and make it happen! I can help with some but can't commit to taking the whole project on - unless everyone is okay with it getting done in about three years....and done poorly.

Levi
01-25-2016, 03:57 PM
Okay, I'm in for sure. Let's get a few of us to spread this out and make it happen! I can help with some but can't commit to taking the whole project on - unless everyone is okay with it getting done in about three years....and done poorly.

For this size, I am not sure how much water volume it would be good for. I know for a 120g tank it will be way overkill but for a 1000g system or a 500g system not sure if you would want one or two of these or three. For a system like JJ's I would probably use 3 of them. I looked at doing larger diameter PVC and the cost goes up pretty quickly for just a few inches larger in diameter unless you can get clearance parts by luck at a local job site.

Levi
01-25-2016, 04:12 PM
If we used 10" PVC pipe there are only a few pieces that would change.

10" pvp pipe in 5ft section so could make 2x of 2.5 feet each and would still work with the same quartz sleeve ~$77
http://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/4004-100ab-10-schedule-40-pvc-pipe-5-ft-section.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiArJe1BRDe_uz1uu-QjvYBEiQACUj6ond9h8cwqzeMr8M2ccar_078fyqoTzuve1nGz TUhmDIaAnYT8P8HAQ

10" PVC coupler cut in half to make top and bottom thicker ~$42
http://www.pvcfittingsonline.com/10-class-125-coupling-c629-100.html

It would make the cost of one unit around 299 parts only

static reef
01-25-2016, 06:49 PM
BLUF- Iknow this started as my idea, but I am out. Sorry.

I did a ton of research and in order to get the growth that they did, they are putting them in line with a calc reactor for stabilization of PH based on Oxegyn and nitrogen. Not only that, but they are cleaning it out every two weeks and she doesn't have that kind of time while I am away. I struggle to make sure the socks get changed. I think I need to stay realistic on this one even though I would love to experiment.

Sidenote-They also incorporated an increase of additives to include iron for improved growth which I am not willing to do. I do not want to add an extra chemical to enhance something in the system to eat more bad stuff out of the water column. I have, however, made a few smaller (more natural) changes that you will see in the future on the build thread.

Joe
01-26-2016, 02:12 PM
BLUF- Iknow this started as my idea, but I am out. Sorry.

I did a ton of research and in order to get the growth that they did, they are putting them in line with a calc reactor for stabilization of PH based on Oxegyn and nitrogen. Not only that, but they are cleaning it out every two weeks and she doesn't have that kind of time while I am away. I struggle to make sure the socks get changed. I think I need to stay realistic on this one even though I would love to experiment.

Sidenote-They also incorporated an increase of additives to include iron for improved growth which I am not willing to do. I do not want to add an extra chemical to enhance something in the system to eat more bad stuff out of the water column. I have, however, made a few smaller (more natural) changes that you will see in the future on the build thread.

I still think it would be useful without the additives and calc reactor. I think it adds a little extra water volume and a dedicated space for the cheato to grow. I think if you didn't clean it out, it would self limit it's growth, and if it grows slower without the additives, the cleanup interval would be less often. As it gets tighter, there is less surface area getting light. Maybe if it works well for us without the additives, it would still be worth considering for you. I'll be a guinea pig if any others are interested in going in.

Levi
01-26-2016, 02:24 PM
I am considering it, trying to think of where it would sit since my UV takes up all of the space in my stand. I have also considering doing a new UV using all 4 bulbs in a 10" tube to consolidate it and maybe give me enough room for a smaller version of this cheato reactor